Hon. Adebowale Olasoji was a member of the Lagos State House of Assembly from 1992-1993. He was the Chairman, House Committee on Finance. He also served as the executive secretary of Ikorodu Local Government between 2002 and 2003 when Governor Bola Ahmed Tinubu was the only governor to survive the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, tsunami in the South West. In this interview with Politics Editor, Lekan Adeniran, he spoke on sundry issues, including the controversial issue of indigeneship in Lagos. Olasoji also called for the amendment of section 50 of the 1999 constitution with a provision that the majority party must produce the leadership of the National Assembly and other principal officers. He said Lagos must get 13 per cent derivation from port activities due to the presence of the Lagos harbour, which he describes as a natural resource.
You have been quiet on the political scene for some time now. What have you been doing in the last couple of years?
Well, I have not really been quiet, but I have not been in the public domain. I have tried as much as possible to concentrate on my family development, especially now that I am a grandpa. I have been taking care of my domestic affairs. But I am very active politically in my local government, especially since the commencement of the All Progressives Congress, APC, in Lagos State. So, I’ve been very active; I’ve not been quiet. But I’ve stayed away from making public appearance.
How would you rate the performance of the outgoing government in Lagos, as a member of the APC?
Well, I don’t care what anybody says. Governor Ambode has performed very well. Before you can rate an administration, you must look at the antecedent of that administration. Mr. Ambode was in the civil service for some time. I’ve known Mr. Ambode as far back as when I was the executive secretary of Ikorodu Local Government. And ever since I’ve known him, he has always been thorough and articulate in whatever he is doing.
I remember he audited our account at that time. He has not been much of a politician, even though he served in the local government; but that is not enough for him to see himself as a politician. Being in politics goes beyond serving in the local government as a civil servant. But since he became the governor, he has concentrated on infrastructural development, which is what is lacking in Lagos State.
If you look at the number of untarred roads and the traffic situation in Lagos State and the environmental situation, you will discover that Lagos requires a huge amount of resources, a huge amount of money to be able to take care of most of these deficits. If one looks at traffic, for instance, although, I am known to come from Ikeja, but my ancestral home is in Ojokoro, also in Lagos State. If you look at the Abule Egba axis, sometimes you spend up to three hours, linking the Lagos-Abeokuta Expressway. But today, the performance of Akinwunmi Ambode has actually turned things around. You hardly spend up to five minutes at that junction now; same thing with Ajah. If you go into the hinterland of Alimosho, it is a new ball game altogether. He has performed excellently well in those areas.
If you look at jobs creation, he provided opportunities to young graduates to be able to fend for themselves. So, there are lots of areas where he has made a lot of impact. And you can only compare him to Babatunde Fashola when he was also the governor of the state. So, as far as I am concerned, if I have to give him any mark, I would give him 65 per cent performance. And I think that is enough to earn anyone second term ticket in the state. Unfortunately, the party that produced him believes that he has not done enough as far they are concerned. That is why we are where we are today.
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What are your expectations from the incoming government of Mr. Babajide Sanwo-Olu?
I don’t know Sanwo-Olu very well. As a matter of fact, I never heard of him until he became the candidate of the party (APC). I believe he would look at the performances of past governors in Lagos State since 1999 and he would try as much as possible to build on it. We have to wait and see what comes out of his administration.
Do you think his government will be able to perform to the expectation of Lagosians, going by the forces that threw him up in the party?
The expectations of Lagosians are very high and I pray that the incoming administration will live up to that expectations. Lagos is like a moving train and it will be difficult for anybody to reverse a moving train. Like I said earlier on, I don’t know much about Mr. Sanwo-Olu. But since I met him, because he came to my area, the Computer Village, to campaign, and from his pronouncements and the way he interacted with people, one would expect that he would try as much as possible; if he cannot beat the performance of Fashola and Ambode, at least, he would try to match them. Like I said, there is little I can say about this coming administration. But, I know that with what has been going on in Lagos State, he would try as much as possible to measure up to it. And looking at the deputy also, his deputy was part of the Fashola team. And for someone like Hamzat (Obafemi) to be his deputy, if they are able to work together harmoniously, Lagosians should expect a good performance.
What’s your take on the contentious issue of indigenes and non-indigenes in the politics of Lagos State?
Personally, I don’t believe anyone should make a political issue out of indigeneship in Lagos State. Who is an indigene in Lagos? We must be able to define that. Once we are able to define who is an indigene in Lagos State, you would see that there is no need for any political issue to be raised if you begin to interview different people in Lagos State, regarding the indigeneship of the state. Well, let us separate indigeneship from who is a Lagosian. May be an indigene will be somebody who can trace his ancestors to the period of the Portuguese in the 16th century, then coming up to the independence of Nigeria. May be those ones will regard themselves as indigenes. But, when you talk about Lagosians, who is a Lagosian? My own definition of a Lagosian is whoever was living in Lagos State before 1967 when the state was created. And whoever is born in Lagos State and has been living in the state can regard himself also as a Lagosian. You remember that before the creation of states, especially Lagos State, in 1967, census was conducted because one of the criteria for the creation is population. You have to count people, who were in Lagos. If you were counted at that time, then you are a Lagosian.
If you are talking about indigeneship, they are very limited in number. So, when you want to talk about the contention of whether someone is a Lagosian, someone is an indigene, in what context. If it is in the political context, the indigenes are at disadvantage because they are very few in number. You cannot even talk about an indigene of Lagos State without referring to all the people living in Yoruba land. Because they are the ones who populated Lagos State, right from inception. You have traders from Ikorodu, from Oyo, from all the other Yoruba hinterland trading in Lagos, living in Lagos. Some people say they are from Benin, in today’s Edo State. They also regard themselves as indigenes. So, why do you want to make an issue out of indigeneship? And you start causing divisions among Lagosians. Can the indigenes administer Lagos State alone? It is not possible. They also are from somewhere. Lagos State is like the United States of America; you have the Europeans, you have the Norwegians, the Germans, all of them concentrating in a new found land now called the United States of America. Lagos was like a new found land for the Portuguese. But we had people from the Yoruba hinterland. So, you cannot actually separate the Yoruba from the indigenes of Lagos. They are indigenous to Lagos because they popu lated Lagos. For instance, the progenitors of the Awori came from Ife. He came and settled here in Lagos at the mouth of the Atlantic Ocean, because Ifa had discovered that there was an ocean here in Lagos with future prosperity foretold. So, people started coming from the Yoruba hinterland to what we call Lagos today. People, especially those who are against the dominance of the progressives in Lagos always want to play that political card of saying Lagos State belongs to the indigenes; let the indigenes administer Lagos State because they cannot mobilise people, they cannot campaign on other issues, they want to play on the sentiment of being an indigene.
How do I describe myself, for instance? My mother is from Ojokoro. We have been there since 1890. My family is the one installing Baale (village head) in my village, Abule Olori, popularly known as Abule Taylor today along the Lagos-Abeokuta Expressway around Abule Egba area. Where do you want to put the Egba in Lagos? You want to tell us they are not indigenes of Lagos? Where do you want to put the Ijebu? You want to tell us they are not indigenes of Lagos? So, the conservatives in Lagos, who are trying to gain power in Lagos, must look for other issues to discuss, not the issue of indigeneship. Indigeneship belongs to the Yoruba-speaking people in Lagos State. And Lagosians included those people, who were living in Lagos State when the state was created in 1967. Don’t make issue out of indigeneship and Lagosians. Let’s talk about issues. What can you do to make Lagos State excel? That’s my position regarding the issue of indigeneship in Lagos.
Based on your submission, do you think attempt by the PDP governorship candidate during this year’s election to play the ethnic card worked against him?
A lot of mistakes had been made in the past, especially since 1999. People who are not from Yoruba land, who are resident in Lagos, because Lagos used to be the capital of Nigeria, they are just a fraction of the population of Lagos State. As a matter of fact, they are less than 50 per cent of the population in Lagos State. Yes, they come every day. The record is that we used to have 1,500 people when Jakande was governor that come into Lagos every day. And, may be now, they are talking about 5,000 people coming into Lagos every day. They will come and go. The people that actually live and administer Lagos State are the Yoruba. There is no doubt about that. But, because the Yoruba are accommodating by nature, they interact freely with any other ethnic group in this country. The Yoruba are just like the Hausa. You can live in Hausa land at least before, without any fear of being discriminated against. That is why you see a synergy and a good working relationship between the Yoruba and the Hausa. Maybe, there is the influence of religion also with the two ethnic groups.
So, if you now say because we have been accommodating, you now want to capitalise on that then the outcome would be very disastrous for those who are playing ethnic politics. I cannot imagine a situation where there would be strife among the people of Lagos and they would ask non-indigenes to leave Lagos State. Where do they want to go to? If they go back to their own land, how do they want to live the type of life they are living here? If any politician goes out there and starts playing the ethnic card, he would meet his waterloo at the poll. At the end of the day, what do they gain?
If we had allowed everybody to play the politics that was played in the past, there wouldn’t have been any issue of anyone playing ethnic politics. I remember that what happened at this last election has been happening here before in Lagos State. In 1979, the progressives won 100 per cent in the state. In 1983, they won 100 per cent. We are just going back to what it used to be. We’ve been losing ground because of this ethnic politics that has been going on. And I think it’s about time we put a stop to it. Let people recognise those who are Lagosians; let people recognise those who are indigenes of Lagos State. The indigenes and Lagosians don’t play this ethnic politics because Lagos was the capital of Nigeria and we should be accommodating to everybody, who does not wish to go to Abuja as the new federal capital territory. So, people are only trying to find a way of getting power through the backdoor and I think it is not going to work in Lagos State.
Going by what happened during the last elections, killings, ballot box snatching, etc., do you think we are making progress politically compared to what we had in 2015?
I must confess that the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) that we have today is quite different from the INEC of Jega era. Jega was more focused than Mahmud. If these inconclusive elections had been something that only happened during this last general election, I would have said that maybe he had more information at hand, which is not known to us. But, if you look at all the by-elections that had taken place before the general election, the same thing happened. I don’t know why we cannot conduct election in a single state at the same time. If you can remember, we still have inconclusive election in one state and those inconclusive elections have been coming up here and there before this general election. There are countries that are bigger than Nigeria and they still conduct their election the same day. Whatever is making us not to conclude our elections at the same time; we must have to find solution to it. I don’t know if we have to recall Jega to come and handle INEC for us again. It is something that is inexplicable.
Do you subscribe to the thinking in some quarters that inconclusive election subverts the will of the people?
It would be difficult not to subscribe to it because when you don’t give us facts and figures as to why you have to cancel…although, there are areas where you have over voting, areas where ballot boxes were snatched, areas where officials couldn’t access on time and in those cases, if it is going to affect the total vote of that constituency, then you don’t have any choice than to declare that election inconclusive. But when it now becomes the norm, it is then worrisome. I think everybody should be worried about that.
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There are permutations already going on regarding where the next president should come from. Do you think it is fair for the South West to clamour for the presidency in 2023?
I don’t think there is any section of the constitution that actually suggests that we should rotate the presidency of this country. But those people who have adopted the rotational practice within their various parties are more concerned about the unity of the country. I am looking to a period of time when anybody can aspire, regardless of the area that he comes from, for the presidency of this country. The presidency of the country is one constituency and I think whether you are Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Fulani, as long as you are a Nigerian, I think you should have the right to aspire (for the presidency). But, the parties have tried to make it as a convention to rotate between the north and the south. They have not said they will rotate among the six geo-political zones. So, if the presidency is coming back to the south, I think anybody, who is a southerner has the right to aspire to become the president of this country.
Don’t you think that for equity and fairness, the South-east should be considered?
When you now pinpoint a particular area, look at what happened in 2011 when the South-south were clamouring that they had never been president, that they are the ones producing the oil of this country, and so, they should be given the opportunity to produce the next president, where did we find ourselves? Like Trump said, we found ourselves in the shithole in this country. Corruption became the norm. It became let everybody grab whatever he can grab. So, once you continue to play tribal sentiments in politics, you don’t get the best out of that country. Let us realise that Nigeria is one constituency. Whether you are from the East, West or North, or from the Middle Belt, as far as you are a Nigerian, you have the right to aspire. So, if the easterners are interested in the presidency of this country in 2023, all well and good. Let them come out with their best candidates, so that Nigerians can judge whether what they are presenting would be the best for the country. As a matter of fact, the presidency has gone to the north, south, returned to the north again. After coming to the south, then we would have had two from the north and two from the south, let it come from anywhere. Let us stop rotation. Let Nigeria be one constituency. If presidents are coming from the same time for 16 years, so be it. As long as they are the best; the candidates that come out must be the best for this country. After 2023, I believe the presidency can come from any part of the country. The issue of rotating between the north and south should be jettisoned.
There is schism going on at the moment at the National Assembly over its leadership. Even the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, says it has the right to present candidate for the leadership position. In a democracy, is it constitutionally right for the minority party to lead the National Assembly?
We are practising the presidential system of government and politically, we borrow whatever is going on right now from the United States of America. I have been fortunate to have studied in the US. As a matter of fact, I spent all my years in Washington DC, where you have all the government machinery. Today, if you look at the makeup of the Senate and the House of Representatives in the United States, may be the margin is about three of four senators. Although, over there, the Vice President is the president of the senate, but in the House of Representatives, if a party has just a simple majority, it produces the Speaker. Whether it is in their constitution or it is a convention; that is what plays out there. But in Nigeria, we always look for loopholes to subvert our genuine intentions. How can a minority party be aspiring to lead the majority? It’s never heard of. Yes, they will always refer to the constitution. Even at that, there is what we call the letters and spirit of the constitution. Here, we always follow the letters of the constitution; they will never follow its spirit. If that is the makeup of Nigerians, I think the legislators are to blame for what is happening today in both houses. Since 1999, if you look at sections 50 and 90, but let us concentrate on Section 50 because it deals with the National Assembly; it says clearly that the legislators will choose the senate president and the Speaker of the House from among themselves. But we know that we are Nigerians; we always like to jettison the spirit of our statues. We must take care of this fundamental area of our legislature. I believe section 50 should be amended with a proviso that the majority party in that house must produce the leadership of the National Assembly and other principal officers. The legislator has not done its best to the people of Nigeria. Take for instance, our representatives from Lagos State at the National Assembly. Since 1999, as a matter of fact, when we left the Lagos State House of Assembly, our members reconstituted themselves into a body and we call our a letter to the president at that time, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, to call his attention to section 162 (2) of the constitution to remind him that Nigeria is short changing Lagos State by not giving the state 13 per cent derivation from all the economic activities taking place in Tin Can and Apapa ports and every other ports in the state. Why will Nigeria give Lagos State derivation? If you go into section 162 (2), there is a proviso in that section, which says that the president, upon the receipt of advice from the Revenue Mobilisation, Allocation and Fiscal Commission (RMAFC), shall table before the National Assembly, proposal for revenue allocation from the federation account and in determining the formula, the National Assembly shall take into account, the allocation principle, especially those of population, equality of state, internal revenue generation, landmass, terrain as well as population density, provided that the principle of derivation shall be constantly reflected in any approve formula as being not less than 13 per cent of the revenue accruing to the federation account directly from any natural resources. It says from any natural resources. It didn’t say from oil.
Do you consider the ports as natural resources?
I consider the harbour, not the ports as a natural resource. The port was built by the Federal Government, but for big ships to enter hinterland, it can only be through the Lagos Harbour. That is why they can’t go to Port Harcourt, Onne or any other place where you have the Atlantic Ocean in Nigeria. It (ship) can only come to Lagos because that harbour was not dredged by the British, the Portuguese or by Nigeria. It is a natural phenomenon. There are very few harbours across the world. Liverpool is one. Nice in France is one. You can count them by your finger tips. The harbour is a natural resource. The Federal Government now built those ports because the ships could enter harbour. So, any economic activity going on through the facilitation of that harbour, 13 per cent of it must come to Lagos State. So, the issue special status for Lagos State that our legislators are demanding today is outdated. It shows that they are not concentrating on their legislative duties. They should concentrate on what is accruable to Lagos State through derivation. And if I were in the National Assembly today, I would be demanding our derivation money from 1999. So, when we are considering constitution, we must always be fair-minded. If the money coming to Lagos is used to develop the state, all Nigerians will enjoy it because all of us are here. They will never give us the special status that they are asking for. The other parts of the country will not give it to us. Because they will tell us that Lagos is enjoying the population, who are paying taxes as a result of the state, being a former federal capital. So, why do you ask for what you cannot get? Let them concentrate their efforts on getting the 13 per cent derivation that is due to Lagos State because of the harbour. So, we must always respect the letters and the spirit of our constitution. That way, we will be able to make progress faster than we are doing now.
