Tope Fasua is a businessman, economist, writer, newspaper columnist and the 2019 presidential candidate of Abundant Nigeria Renewal Party. He spoke to Akani Alaka on the recent EndSARS protests, the violence that followed and how the youth can be relevant in the 2023 elections.
What is your opinion about the EndSARS protests, especially how it eventually turned out?
The whole thing was supposed to be spontaneous; the youths said they did not have any leader. However, they were able to raise money and sponsorship in some quarters. That said, there is always advantages and disadvantages to every strategy.
The disadvantage of a leaderless strategy is that it often gets hijacked. Many of the people who participated in the protest may not know what the protest is about. Hooligans will come in, politicians will come in, anarchists will come in and all of that. We predicted that it will dissipate somehow the way it did, even though they built stuff that they can continue to work with to put the government on its toes.
So, you think that the problem was that the protest has no clear leaders and that’s why the protest dovetailed into the violence we saw?
It’s natural because like I said, there are advantages and the disadvantages. The advantages of a leaderless protest are that it can go very viral, very quickly, but in time it will begin to lose focus, lose direction. And we have some people also adding their agenda onto the leadership protest and the leaderless group and that’s what has happened.
For example, I tell people that between Lekki toll gate which was the epicentre of the protest and Ajah, there are different kinds of people living in the two areas. In Lekki, for example, you will find more upbeat, young, internet, tech-savvy people. In Ajah, you will still find them, but you now have a mixture of Area Boys, Omo Oniles and all of that who will make an incursion into that protest.
Between Alausa and Akowonjo, Egbeda or Alagbado, Alakuko or Okokomaiko or even in Allen, Opebi, there are also different kinds of people compared to those in Lekki – talking about the level of income, standard of living and so on. So, if those guys who are in the highbrow areas understand the idea of peaceful protest, no violence and all that, the other guys may not understand. And since there is no particular leadership, ‘you are not representing me’ or you are violent and all of that,’ violence will continue to take place.
If they have leaders, the advantage is that they will have direction, it will be more difficult to hijack, people will have one person that they can key into his or her vision because the advantage of leadership is visioning. However, the fear of the youths, which is also valid is that when you have a leader, then, they might call him and quickly dissipate the entire thing. The government will have someone to hold on to, to victimize or to bribe.
However, I think they need to consider leadership going forward to have a sustainable protest. Now is the time to have leaders so that you can have proper visioning, operations, operationalization and all of that. And they also cannot and should also not succumb to this issue of lack of trust-building trust is a very onerous process, but it is something that must be done one way or the other, you build it gradually.
The first thing is to trust yourself. If you don’t trust yourself, it means that if you are called aside and given a few million, you will forget all of these, then, you will not trust the next person. So, I am calling on Nigerian youths to trust themselves one and one and then begin to trust people. As you trust them, you also hedge your risks to ensure that you don’t trust people 100 per cent and go to sleep. You also put an eye out, you put in some risk management. That’s how it is done. Otherwise, it will be difficult for the entire project to continue.
What do you make of the government’s response to the request of the protesters?
The President initially refused to talk to the protesters. But later, the government accepted their initial five demands. Some people have said we may not have witnessed the violence and destruction we saw if the protesters had left the streets when their initial five demands were acceded to…
We know our President; we know the way he operates. He certainly did not talk when he should; he is not a communicative person. He lives in his cocoon and that is part of the problem. Of course, he eventually spoke and the statement he made was basically telling off the protesters.
That is his own approach. Even though that stands very condemnable, I am also very wary because, at some point, some undemocratic agenda crept into the protest. People were saying ‘End Buhari’ he should resign or his government should resign, some were suggesting people that will head a new government. But that’s a military terminology, which you can only find in Libya and so on and, of course, in the military era of Nigeria or Ghana.
Some people were also talking of ‘ending Nigeria’ which is also very problematic because Gideon Orkar’s coup failed when the plotters asked some people to start going back to their states. Of course, the government’s response was totally inefficient. However, their response in terms of acceding to five for five requests was a bit average if you ask me.
The people in government were actually afraid, they knew that this was a serious issue and they were looking at how to respond adequately. However, the first wrong thing was that they started what they called SWAT, a replacement for SARS, which was also a disaster. So, whether SARS or SWAT – both of them were disasters. Having said that, the youths could have been more pragmatic by meeting government somewhere in the middle. In other words, if you want to be part of a new country or a new thing, you have sometimes to be in a labour room, being part of the delivery of that process.
They missed that opportunity – you can’t afford to be on the streets forever. Of course, you put the government under immense pressure, you also increase the risk of a catastrophe because there is no how you can continue to be on the streets and being tyrannical in your own way.
There were instances of ambulances being prevented from passing through some of the blockades they made and not sticking to their agenda and all of that. And when you have a standoff and you have some of these agenda – agenda to remove the government, agenda to knock off Nigeria – the government must act. If you expect the government not to act, that is being immature. I think the youths must also begin to put themselves in the position of leadership eventually, apart from the fact that I will recommend that they also join politics in any way they can.
They have to begin to look at themselves and say this thing we are asking for, the way we are asking, what if we were the ones in position, what would we have done? They could have met the government in the middle somewhere and be part of the new process. For example, on the issue of SARS, I suggested that the youths could have created a new name. If you don’t want SARS, which is Special Anti-Robbery Squad or if you don’t want SWAT, which is Special Weapon and Tactics – those are negative names- What weapon? What tactics? What anti-robbery?
But if you want to have something like Police Tactical Service, which emphasizes the fact that they are service providers and you want to decide what kind of uniform they will wear, whether they will have body cameras, their cars should have cameras, what are the rights of the citizens when they are stopped on the road, how do they speak to citizens, when do they ask to check your phones? Is it not after you have been arrested and reasonable suspicion has been established?
Of course, I would have suggested that the anti-cultism and kidnapping unit, which was notorious in its self should be fused into that. So, there is a lot of intellectual approaches the youths could have adopted in meeting with the government than going into a situation of a standoff. But, of course, the truth should be told also that a revolution is what it is, it usually ends up in this manner.
But revolution also creates oppressors on many occasions. I think about these things very far. The youths don’t get the idea that if you are asking for inclusivity and all of that, you also need to show it as well if you understand what you are asking for.
For instance, the whole idea of the youths saying that my generation – those of us who are in their 40s have failed them, that we are ‘gbenudake generation’, that we are a bunch of cowards – you don’t come into leadership with such negativity. In our own time, we also had our own struggles, but I am not sure that we set out to be very rude or to abuse our own parents. And that is nonsensical if you ask me. So, if you want to be a leader, you have to be very inclusive from the word go. The same respect that you want, you have to show that same respect to other people.
But do you share the sentiment of people who said the EndSARS protest signifies the awakening of Nigerian youths and their determination to take over the leadership of the country?
Again, the movement could intervene in constitutional issues by forcing a constitutional review and that would have demanded some level of leadership and a certain level of organization, which, of course, they did not have. Some of them are saying anybody who had been in politics between 1960 and 2019, they don’t want anymore – but those of us who tried in 2019 were as radical as they are, only that we decided to go the democratic route, which is the best route to take.
You can’t bring down this democracy which many people have suffered for even though you weren’t born then, you must know the struggle of those people. History is very important for you to know why you were where you were and where you need to be. History is important. Without benefits of history, they will fumble around and make mistakes and create even more grievous problems for Nigerians and the country. Every one of us – even if somebody is 100 years old – he is still a Nigerian and everybody’s voice and concern should be heard and analyzed in arriving at a better Nigeria.
I don’t think it is a good strategy for them to try to exclude people. But I must also point out that the whole idea of saying the Nigerian youths have ‘awoken’ could also be very erroneous because you can see the number of the youths who also took to the streets looting, the ones that went vandalizing and burning houses, utilities and everything in Lagos and other places. They are also youths, but those are not the ones on the streets. Now, the ones that are on the streets are the ones that were said to have ‘awoken.’
But the type of ‘awoken’ that we saw with the looters, arsonists and the vandals was a different type of awakening. The truth is that the ones that did the peaceful protest did not reckon with the vandals and the arsonists and the truth is that the arsonists and the vandals are perhaps, a 100 times the people of the people who went out on the streets. So, if politics is a game of numbers and it comes to voting in a democratic setting, those vandals and looters are still in the grip of the politicians.
So, the youths must understand that they have a big problem on their hands in the sense of how to reach out to those youths that do not understand peaceful protest and so on, the hungry ones, that need to eat and all of that. You still need to find a way of getting across to those people.
Those that we say have awoken are those on the social media, but a lot of the youths that we saw looting are not on the social media in a very active way – they may have accounts, they may check once in a while, but they don’t even have enough data to be tweeting, doing Instagram and all of that. So, the youths of this country should not celebrate yet because the challenges ahead are enormous.
So, you are not optimistic that the EndSARS protests will ginger a change in the country’s leadership structure in 2023 as some are already advocating?
I believe that what has happened now will ginger some changes immediately. But the youths have to be part of it, like I said, if you want to be part of the delivery of a baby, you must be in the labour room. In any way you can do it – if you don’t want them to bribe your fellow youths and so on, at least, you can still throw your ideas in public space, be very articulate with what you want.
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For example, I suggested the new PTS right now and I suggested the things the new police can have. Those are the kinds of things that should be done because the youths understand how these things work elsewhere. They have been to Europe, especially some of those youths that protested- the US may not be a good example today- so they know exactly what they want in that regard. So, they should be the one suggesting such.
Even, with what they have done, certainly, things will change. The government is very afraid of the power they have shown and the things they can set off. Like I heard one of my elders saying that what forced government’s hands was not just the protests, but the looting, the invasion of politicians’ houses and so on. So, a lot of things will change. Politics, I know will change.
In Lagos and some other places, some of the policemen are just refusing to go to work and the government is trying to beg them. Of course, I understand that some of them may suffer post-traumatic disorders. I have seen videos of policemen being murdered in cold blood by our people- some stoned to death, some macheted to death and any policeman seeing these things will wonder if he is in the right profession.
They will seek protection from the government. So, a few things will change- I think governance will improve in Nigeria. But like I said so that it doesn’t improve in the wrong way, the youths still have to get involved – the real work is at the intellectual front, beyond the street protests.
As someone who has been part of the formation of a political party and has contested in an election before, what is your advice to the youths on how they can become relevant politically in 2023 because some of them are advocating the formation of a new party, while others are saying they should just try to join and take over the existing parties, especially, the two major ones- the PDP and APC…
I think they should do the two really because you never know which one would work. But I think it is going to be an enormous task to take over some of the big parties except they get the buy-in of the elders and you don’t get the buy-in of the elders by cutting them out. To take over APC or PDP, you need billions and billions of naira to reach out to the wards and so on – Nigeria is a vast country.
And of course, you don’t take over something that will be toxic- that will deliver the same result. So, the challenge right now is that if the youths are not careful, they may end up running even worse regimes if they have the opportunity and that will not be good enough. So, you have to ensure that you are also re-orientating the party and the members as you go along. How do you sell a new ideology, new ethos, a new moral view, how do you do that?
That is the challenge that they will face. However, they could also form a new party and if they want to do that, the time is now. If they also want to take over the existing parties, the time to start is now- the next general election is in 27 months. And to form a new party is not a tea party. People have been trying to form a new party for the past one and a half years. INEC has not announced any new party maybe for almost a year now.
So, maybe you need a year to form a new party and after that, you have 15 months to do all your party primaries, to nominate people, do your party congress, nominate people to run for elections, do the campaign, source for funds- it is an enormous task. So, I am afraid, maybe the youths will have to go on a protest again because they may find that they are frustrated by the reality on the ground.
Things are very, very difficult to do and things take time as well beyond idealism and romanticism – these things are very practical tough issues. How do you get those numbers – the number of people on the streets for the EndSARS, maybe 200,000 to 300,000. Will that one win election for you anywhere? I am standing in front of my office, I am looking at ‘mebollas,’ Area Boys, Almajiris – these are some of the numbers. For as long as those numbers remain in the hands of the traditional politicians, the task is going to be herculean for them.
And that is where the issue of if they can get hold of the old parties will come in. if they can get hold of the old parties, fine. But it will be a big trade-off- how do you ensure that you wear off old people like the Tinubus of this world? So that they can say “guys, I am tired of this thing, you guys should take over. Let me see how you can do it.” Is Tinubu not likely to hand over to one of his boys?
So, you can see that people like Fayemi, El-Rufai and co are also stepping forward in some very clever way for the 2023 election and you cannot call them very old people as well though they have been in politics for 20 years cumulatively – some of them were in their 30s when they began.
So, you can see that even the argument of a youthful generation does not hold because people will tell you that apart from Yahaya Bello who became governor at 40, 41 or so, people like Dino Melaye are there and their focus was on luxury and acquisition of chattels and so on.
So, is it a matter of youth or a matter of age or a matter of integrity?
What would you attribute the violence that trails the protests to, because some are saying that it shows that Nigeria’s democracy has not delivered for the people, do you agree with that…
Certainly, but there is a good and profound analysis which I am not sure Nigerians are ready for. The truth is that democracy has not delivered and what has happened since 1999 is that politicians are merely talking, they jump in and are protecting themselves and grabbing as much as they could. But also, part of the problem is historical – you can look at Nigeria’s demography and say, what kind of people are we, where are we coming from? Foreign systems were foisted on us through colonialism.
All of a sudden, we have to run this type of government, this type of economic system. And naturally, because of that imposition, a lot of people will be left out of the circle. I saw an article somewhere that Nigeria’s governance system was formed to benefit just a few people – to benefit the colonialist. Now, it is benefitting the politicians, not the people. So, part of the problem is historical, part of the problem also has to do with who we are as a people in terms of our culture and ability to cross over from those old cultures into the new ones.
For example, where you have a baby, you must throw a party, you must call people, if you get a promotion at work, you must celebrate, if you build a house you must throw a party, not to talk of wedding and so on. The White Man’s culture, the economic system that we inherited, does not have provision for these things and that is one of the things I think our youths must come to terms with and understand.
What exactly do they want? If you go to Europe or America today, you will realize that many of the young people there are merely just living from hands to mouth – you get a job in MacDonald and you keep working and working – 9 to 5. I have friends, who even though they are big men, they cannot tell you that they have £1000 as savings in the UK or the US. They run their lives by credit culture.
Why do we think that sometimes when they come here, they don’t want to go? Do our youths understand that the challenges of those countries are also opportunities for them? And then, did they also understand the limits of legitimate expectations? Many of the people who were on the streets in Lekki have businesses and some of those businesses ended up being destroyed by the marauding hordes that came out as looters and so on.
That wasn’t the intention of those who were on the streets, even they and everybody was shocked at the level of looting and so on. It is not just a matter for this government alone; it is a matter of democracy since 1999. When people talk about restructuring, I tell them that I believe that we only stopped restructuring in 1999.
Since 1999 to date, we have stopped doing something about the allocation formula, the derivation formula, state creation, local government creation. Everybody went to sleep, saying democracy is what we want. But someone also said, perhaps, every generation has its reason for being – if our generation was to fight for June 12, democracy and to chase the army away, perhaps, it is this generation that will ensure that we achieve the Nigerian dream or at least, begin to work towards it. So, I think that historical perspective must be understood. Everybody has something to add to the eventual emergence of a proper Nigeria.
Given what happened in Lekki- the shootings and violence in Lagos and different parts of the country, do you think the EndSARS protests should continue because there were some of the activists led by Sowore and co going round Abuja last Sunday, trying to paint EndSARS on some roads, at the airport…
One of the problems I have with them is the term itself, ‘EndSARS’. As tragic as it is that policemen are killing Nigerians -young people, profiling them wrongly and so on- it does not define the entire problems that we have in Nigeria. EndSARS, I believe if they can achieve, let say what I suggested – Police Tactical Service, a rebranded police, which is also supposed to be police that is well paid and all of that, then, EndSARS should transform into something more holistic, something that also considers the issues in the North of Nigeria.
One of the problems of EndSARS is that SARS is a problem in the South of Nigeria, much less in the North of Nigeria. So, if the youths are very interested in leadership, they need to understand that they need to build a coalition of both northern and southern youths, eastern and western youths, get everybody involved. So, should the EndSARS protests continue? I don’t believe it should as EndSARS, because you cannot just continue to shout ‘EndSARS,’ ‘EndSARS.’
At some point, it will begin to sound very childish. But if you are saying ‘Good Governance Nigeria’ fantastic, ‘Inclusiveness Nigeria’ fantastic – things of that nature will be good. But I must also say that everybody has their own calling. Sowore was at the airport. Maybe some people’s calling is disruptions, aluta and co, but that is not my own calling.
My own calling is on the intellectual side, to think and to proffer solution and to analyse from historical perspective. So, perhaps, they are acting according to their callings. It is left for the Nigerian government to know how to deal with such. But unfortunately, I think also our government, including our security operatives -everybody- has been at sleep forever.
Everybody is on this autopilot mode, grabbing money, feeling funky, travelling everywhere, building houses that they will not live in, grabbing and grabbing. So I think all of those protests also have their own uses, if you ask me.
