Senator Matthew Urhoghide represents Edo South in the Red Chambers of the National Assembly. He is the Chairman, Senate Committee on Public Account. In this interview with our correspondent, Onazena Abbey, the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, senator cautions the ruling All Progressives Congress, APC, of the inherent danger in presenting candidate for the senate president inimical to the choice of senators. He said the Senator Bukola Saraki-led Eighth Senate, against all odds, gave the National Assembly direction. He also spoke on other sundry national issues.
What manner of senate are we expecting come June 2019?
Well, just like you know what the statutory functions would be, I expect that the next senate should be able to discharge its responsibilities to Nigerians, especially in the areas of lawmaking for good governance, doing its oversight functions, supervision of all agencies of government, blocking linkages, but again giving our constituencies, effective representation. Outside of these, I think we should be able to intervene for the people of this country to ensure their interest is represented at all levels of governance; to ensure that we as citizens of this country actually have a sense of belonging. You know that the constitution is very clear what the responsibilities of every government is; the welfare of the citizens, protection of the citizens. If the parliament is able to live up to its responsibilities, to ensure all of these, then we will know we have a senate, but if we don’t, no matter the beauty of the laws we are going to initiate, if the quality of the people’s lives is not enhanced, if their safety is not guaranteed, of course, we will say we do not have senate and legislature.
It is my dream that the senate should be able to fill the gap between government and the people. The senate should stand its grounds to ensure the quality of lives of the people is enhanced. Senate constitutes parts of the leadership of this country. We have the senate at the National Assembly, state legislatures and the councillors at the local governments. All of us are discharging the same functions. But you found that the councillors are cowed by the council chairmen. And, of course, at the state level, we have seen majority of the state governors completely enveloped the state assemblies that they cannot make choices, take decisive decision. They are rubber stamp. At the national level, the senate, being the upper chamber, should give direction. So, if you look at the senate, being the topmost of the parliament should be able to provide leadership. It should be able to set the pace; the signpost for all other legislatures across the states and local government levels. I am the Chairman, Senate Committee on Public Account. I chair all the state Houses of Assembly, 36 of them, including the House of Representatives; they are all under me. So, if the Public Account Committee is to ensure there are probity, accountability and transparency in governance, I must be the one to show example.
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So, in every sphere, in all other divisions as legislative business, it is the senate that should provide the direction. If we are able to do that, I think we would have done better and put in place a better Nigeria. And what does this imply? It means we are able to initiate good governance. But the way we have done in the last few years, you know with the senate trying to develop itself as an institution in line with international best practices, that is, what it’s supposed to be; that independence, that is why there have been clashes here and there. The 8th senate was able to give itself direction and if you look at it today, if you look at the last National Assembly election, the leadership paid the price of trying to determine the independence of the National Assembly. So, if you look at Bukola Saraki today, they tried to disgrace him for daring to see that the institution (National Assembly) is free. So, I expect the 9th senate to strengthen all we have achieved in trying to make the institution independent, the gains we have achieved in trying to make the legislature independent, independent because that is what democracy is. Each arm of government is independent of the other. So, if you are independent of the other, you should go and treat your leadership but for the senate to say no, because that is what happened in the 7th Assembly while the 8th Assembly did a whole better. So, the 9th senate, if they allow themselves to be cowed, that is their cup of tea. But for some of us, we are going to strengthen the institution. Indeed, the senate is like the other advanced democracies that operate independently.
The tussle as to who becomes the next senate president is heating up the polity. What is your take on this?
We have the right to make a choice. It must be somebody that is the best amongst equals and can give direction to that institution, irrespective of which political party. Serious parliaments are driven by the leadership the people want. It is what we have to do and we must do what we have to do in the best interest of Nigeria. So the best should be in the greater interest of our people irrespective of political party. If you make a choice amongst your party contestants and you are making a wrong choice and you feel you can impose a wrong choice, then we shall see. Allow us to proffer and make the choice because that is what happened in the 8th senate when two or more contestants wanted to be senate president. If they present more than one candidate, we have the right to choose. If the three of them share their votes and we decide to vote for one who the party never supports, by the time that one wins, the fight will start again. So, if they want to avoid crisis, APC must be properly prepared to run democracy with all its arsenals. They must be master of the game. Go and settle your matter at home. You must peep into the other camp to see what is happening there so that your choice must not be a wrong choice for us. If they are divided, then we can throw up one because any of us can become the senate president. Section 8 is very clear and nobody says it must be APC. It could also be the person coming from YPP. It does not matter.
Some people are of the view that only Mr. President and the ruling party can determine who becomes the senate president. Are you comfortable with this?
Nobody is a houseboy to anybody in this business. Anybody that wants to subordinate the legislative arm to the executive arm, the person or persons should have a rethink. In the 8th senate, those that were appointed by President Buhari were even the ones that were saying we should not operate independently. People like Babachar Lawal insisted Saraki must go. You, an appointee of the president, and he was the first to be shown the way out. Have you forgotten the president has people in opposition in other parties, who are in the National Assembly? So, if they say it is what the president wants (that) they will do, when we get there that day we will make our choice.
What do you think the legislative arm can do to gain independence and avoid interference from the executive?
Look, the first thing to do is for us to make our own choice of those who become the senate president and other principal officers of the National Assembly. We have to make a choice; the chairman of the National Assembly is the senate president. It is an independent institution. So, if we make our choice of who that person is, don’t forget we are all equal; nobody can make a better choice for us. Are you now saying that amongst us, 109 cannot make a choice on their own, that it must be one man from outside there, who can make such choice? The party or APC had the right of who becomes their principal officers, majority leader, whip, deputy whip. But who presides? The constitution is very clear on it; one from amongst us.
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How can state assemblies detach themselves from the seeming dictatorship of the governors?
I just told you that at the National Assembly, anything that will not make us move forward, we will resist. So, heaven will not fall if they resist. Nobody is going to fight the battle for them. If the councillors resist the chairmen, heaven will not fall. We have already approved the constitutional amendment. Now, that they are going to be free. Everything they do, they are now on their own. They can make their budget, pass it and the executive will comply. What is due to the judiciary now is given to them. What is due to us is given to us. At the National Assembly, if our salary was dependent on Mr. President, maybe he would not pay us. So, they must free themselves. Edo State House of Assembly was one of those states that voted against their autonomy, but we were still able to get 2/3 across the country. Today, they are all happy because I was told the chief executive here (Edo) told them not to try it; to vote against autonomy.
During the last governorship/Houses of Assembly elections in some states, particularly in Edo, the message was vote for those who can cooperate with the governor and not those who are capable of representing the people. Where will this kind of politics lead us to?
That is the sorry state we have found ourselves in Edo; it is a sorry state. How can somebody campaign for those who can work with you and not those who can represent the people? Is it not those the people want that can work with you? If what you are doing is not what the people want, they will not support you. Members of the state assemblies should represent their people. At the senate, I represent the Edo South people, not the president. In the last four years, I don’t think I have ever met with him. But when he needs me, he will let me know. But I have been able to do my work well, sponsor my bills, move motions and represent my people. It would have been better if we had interaction but the president is not disposed to seeing anybody who is not from his party. So, I decided to keep him at an arms length and that is why any day I will work against him.
What were those things you never liked about the 8th senate and don’t want to see in the 9th senate?
The leadership of the 8th senate early enough could have understood the position of the executive. The numbers of bills passed by the 8th senate and the resolution from our motions, the 2011-2015 senate did not pass such, all together. The president did not assent to one quarter of these bills. So, that is a problem. Look at all the advert, public hearings that were done, you can see what it is. So, that deflated the zeal. When these bills were being considered, it would have been better for the executive to peep into it. That is why the parliamentary system is a little better because the ministers and segment of the executive are part of it. So, in the description of our work, we should let the executive know what it really entails. Parliament everywhere in the world is a conservative entity. The executive must sit up so that they can appraise the efforts of other arms of government in the best interest of our country.