…Offers Nigerians tips on how to cope with challenges
Former President Ibrahim Babangida says he has maintained a relationship with Mr. Peter Obi even before the presidential candidate of the Labour Party in the 2023 election became governor of Anambra State.
In an exclusive interview with Steve Nwosu and Shola Oshunkeye at his Hilltop Mansion in Minna, Babangida said a few things impressed him about Obi. “He was a young man, but he is passionate about development, passionate about Nigerianness,” the ex-military leader underlined what endeared Obi to him.
He said their relationship was so cordial that it was only fair that when Obi decided to run for president, he came to inform him and seek his advice.
Babangida declined to endorse any presidential candidate for the 2023 election. But he expressed the wish that Nigeria would evolve to a stage the president and the vice president would be of the same ethnic origin, religion, or even be from the minority but these would not matter during elections.
“I want to see a situation where a minority – whatever they call a minority in this country -a minority is the president and a minority is the vice president. I also will like to see a situation where a Christian is the president and a Christian is the vice president or a Muslim is the president and a Muslim the Vice President and Hausa-Fulani president, vice president. If we have this at the back of our minds and we are working to achieve it, it is possible because being a president doesn’t mean anything to a man in the village. What he is interested in is education for his children, security for his well-being, and food on his table. If he gets those, you can go and argue the whole lot, he doesn’t give a damn”.
Speaking about his expectations for the 2023 polls, Babangida expressed the hope that the election would be free, fair, and credible. “I hope that Nigerians will be much more educated than before on the process of politics and voting”.
The former military ruler also offered advice on how to cope with the challenges of the times.
In another month, you will be 81?
You are just reminding me. I seem to have forgotten (laughter) God willing, yes.
Between last year when you celebrated your 80 and now, how has it been?
We thank God because I have been able to keep very reasonably well; obeying the doctors all the time and we thank God, between then and now, I enjoy relatively good health.
You obey your doctors and that’s very critical for everybody regardless of age. Isn’t it?
Yes, it is. I followed their instructions meticulously.
For those of us, who are trying to grow old like you, I am not saying you are old (laughter)?
There is nothing wrong in saying I’m old.
What are those things that you will recommend, that will sustain us and help us to get there?
Remain your natural self and don’t get agitated quite easily and remain very free and open-minded all the time. This is my experience.
READ ALSO: http://Apostle Ogu @ 60: 60 Garlands to God’s Axe for Justice, An outstanding Philanthropist
When you say don’t get agitated easily, people will always step on your toes. Are you saying we shouldn’t get angry?
No, you should accept it as one of those things in life. I hardly get angry and I think that helps a lot. You live well with virtually everybody.
And people get to appreciate that you don’t get angry, you try to calm down things. If others are getting angry, calm them down. But you don’t get angry.
So, if you are going to tell us the young ones, the checklist of things we have to observe- number one, you have to peace, you must not be agitated, you have to obey your doctors, you have to eat well…
Sleep well.
Sleep well. Are there other things?
And don’t overdo anything.
Like what?
Sports.
Indoors or outdoor?
Both indoor and outdoor (laughter).
Are you worried that when you open the papers today, people are dropping dead like pawpaw, not because of anything but because of the stress of living in Nigeria?
That’s right.
It is happening everywhere, how do you feel about that?
I feel reasonably bad and I think we have to do something about that, especially when it is about medical issues – how we take care of ourselves, we need to do more to talk to ourselves and to learn more about living healthy.
I can aspire to be healthy, but what if the prevailing environment does not allow me – for example, I struggle for food, water, light, passable roads, insecurity, I struggle, struggle. You’ve been there before. How do we ensure the purpose of government, which is to provide happiness?
And the welfare of the people.
Exactly. So, what is the way out?
The way out is for the leadership to be able to situate themselves into the position of the ordinary persons. I will give you an example.
When that man was a young man, I was once traveling with him and we got into heavy traffic, people were walking. He said there were too many people. He was about five or six at that time.
So, I told him a story. I said ‘yes, there are a lot of people in the town. But you observe that some people are sweating, quarreling, and so on.
God has been kind to us, you are in a car with me now, air-conditioned, and you play music. I want you to know that I and you are the same as those people walking before God.
So, don’t think that you were in a car, you are better than them. What I was trying to put up in him is that everybody is equal. God created us differently and gives us his grace in one way or the other. Others are not so lucky.
So, we are lucky and we must also appreciate that. And that’s because I don’t want him to think that ‘okay, they are not in a vehicle, we are in a vehicle and, therefore, we are better citizens or better human beings.’
This is just the way I think and I develop the ability to tolerate or absorb a lot of inconveniences.
Nigerians are generally hardworking, honest people – positively aggressive when it comes to existential matters. What words do you have for them at a time like this – when it seems their universe is collapsing around them?
Hope. They should continue to remain hopeful that things will eventually change either by divine intervention or by something we will do – saying, no, we can’t tolerate this. Let’s change the narrative.
How would they change the narrative?
By agreeing among themselves – somebody has to provide the leadership. I am one of those who believe that one tree can make a forest. You know they say one tree can’t make a forest, but I believe it can.
How?
Simple – I always gave the example of the Hutus and the Tutsis. If you ask a Rwandese, are you Hutu or Tutsi? He will tell you that I’m a Rwandese and stop there.
After the genocide?
Yes, he is Rwandese, you can’t call him Tutsi or Hutu, he will be angry with you. And that’s because they have changed the narrative of their country.
It is like what we are talking about earlier. If you ask somebody here, ‘Are you a Nigerian?”
He will say ‘Yes, I am.” Then, you ask him ‘are you Hausa?’ He will tell you that ‘no, I am a Nigerian.’ Since we have agreed to be Nigerians, we should see ourselves as one.
Are you saying that we should obliterate the state of origin, local government, region, and quota system from our list of national priorities and considerations?
I think even the quota system was an effort to get the country to get together as one because the general complaints existed that certain groups of people are more in, let’s say ministry of x or y or z. So, we introduced that system.
Now, I will give you an example – before, you don’t have graduate unemployment in places like Kano.
YOU MAY ALSO LIKE: http://Tinibu’s camp dismisses alleged rift with Buhari
Now, you have. Therefore, that policy has brought people to come at par in terms of the level of education and so forth. It has helped in the last 50 years or so. As we move on, nobody is going to talk about the quota system.
This time, I am glad that Nigerians are now talking about competence. Everybody these days whether you are talking about senators, governorship, or even the president, talk about competence, not the state of origin, or religion.
So, I think it’s a matter of time and gradually things will change.
Earlier, you said the people themselves can say enough is enough. How will they say that?
People like you and I – the elite should find a way of drumming it into people by any means – social media, conventional media to say that if we truly believe that we want to be a country, these are the things we should do and make sure that people are imbibing them.
In the last election in Anambra, for the first time, somebody was given money but refused it. And this time, we have vote buying, fine. But it wasn’t so prevalent in Osun as it was in Ekiti.
So, things will change. But we have to keep on hitting it hard for the ordinary person, the masses to imbibe.
The youths constitute 40 per cent of the population and that’s a powerful block?
They are.
How do you suggest to them to harness their inherent powers to help this country achieve the greatness it deserves because all over the world, the youths, new voters are the agents of change?
I think the government or leadership has a role to play in this. There has to be communication between the government and the governed.
The leader should be able to communicate easily, profess something to the followers and keep doing it, in a matter of time, they will pick it up.
Somebody accused you of working for a specific presidential candidate – Peter Obi to be precise, ahead of the 2023 election. The allegation was that you and retired Generals Obasanjo and Abdulsalami are working to actualize the presidency of Peter Obi, how true is that?
No. I will like to see a situation in this country where two things will happen. I was joking with a friend and I said I want to see a situation where a minority – whatever they call a minority in this country – a minority is the president and a minority is the vice president.
I also will like to see a situation where a Christian is the president and a Christian is the vice president or a Muslim is the president and a Muslim the Vice President and Hausa-Fulani president, vice president.
If we have this at the back of our minds and we are working to achieve it, it is possible because being a president doesn’t mean anything to a man in the village.
What he is interested in is education for his children, security for his well-being, and food on his table. If he gets those, you can go and argue the whole lot, he doesn’t give a damn.
So, anybody that can give Nigerians that, you will queue behind him?
That’s right.
Why did you pick interest in Peter Obi?
I have known Peter for some time.
You were in PDP and I know that you have a strong passion and affection for PDP?
I will tell you what happened. If you remember, before 1999, there was this remnant of the military trying to bring about the democratic process.
So, we have been involved in trying to get the political system right which started in 1989 – if you remember, the NRC, the SDP, now became the PDP, the APC, and so on. We were involved in monitoring and setting up the political system. That’s how we became interested.
Is that when you met Peter Obi?
No. I met Peter before he became governor and a few things impressed me about him. He was a young man, but he is passionate about development, passionate about Nigerianness, and from there, we kept contact for a long time. We talk to each other and so on.
So, it is only fair that when he decided to be the president or a candidate, he should come and let me know.
That’s the extent of the relationship. It’s like ‘don’t read it in the paper, I am going to run’ and whatever advice I have; I will give it to him based on my own experience, hopefully, that will help him to mobilize all of you.
Do you recommend him strongly to Nigerians?
No, I recommend every Nigerian who expresses the desire to be a president of this country because he must have come out because he has something to give. Every one of them has something that he thinks he can give to Nigerians.
So, if anybody is going to give me something that will attract me, of course, I will listen to him.
The perception out there is that you support Peter Obi and your party, PDP has a candidate and they are construing or misconstruing it to mean that you are ditching your candidate and transferring your love to another party’s candidate. Have you heard that?
No, I haven’t heard that. I am hearing it now for the first time from you. Somebody sent me that interview and then, somebody sent me what Sowore said – that Obasanjo, Abdulsalami, Aliyu Gusau and Ango Abdullahi that we are promoting Peter Obi and I’m glad that the answer you said they gave Sowore was that he was jealous.
So, what is the answer you are going to give to them?
I don’t have to answer. Nigerians will say ‘no’ to everything at the first mention. If I say my name is Babangida, he will tell me ‘no’, your name is not Babangida. That’s typical Nigerian and if you are used to it, why do you bother?
But how do you feel that people who go out there and malign the Babangida phenomenon or the person of Babangida still come here either in the day or at night seeking your blessings for one thing or the other?
It reinforces my belief about the Nigerian character. A Nigerian shouldn’t let you not go to sleep.
There are lots of rumours about your health out there; so many funny things, even when we were coming, somebody said something?
Somebody must have told you that I died long time ago. That’s normal, that’s typical Nigerian. You just have to understand his psyche – everything, he will want to say ‘No’ to it.
If I told him this is your name, he will tell me ‘no’, it is not your name. And you have to accept it because he likes to argue, he wouldn’t allow me to say I know you.
Have you also heard the rumour that you’ve been amputated?
I heard it. Dead, amputated, I just laugh.
You just laugh?
Oh yes, that’s what makes this country great.
You don’t think it is what you can ask your press officer to react?
No. And it is not the work of my enemies like they would say.
So, do you enjoy some of these rumours?
Yes, they keep me going.
They also say so many things about your long absence from Council of State meetings?
I may ask you, maybe you can tell me. You are in the media. How many times has there been a Council of State meeting? Not many. So, until they call us we go. If they don’t call us, we don’t go.
Has there been any held without an invitation sent to you?
No. if, let’s say there should be a Council of State meeting once every three months, then, I can understand.
But it hasn’t been very regular. So, any time it comes, we are either not in the country or somebody is indisposed.
What are your expectations for 2023?
That there would be a free and fair election, credible and I hope that Nigerians will be much more educated than before on the process of politics and voting.
Do you have a gut feeling that there could be a shocker? I mean, something happening against the projections of the people, like in Osun for instance, people thought it was going to be a walkover for the incumbent?
Oyetola?
Yes, the incumbent and then…
I predicted that he was going to lose because, on the campaign trail, I saw Adeleke. I like him. I know his elder brother. He served as commissioner when I was in office, Isiaka Adeleke.
So, my interest in him goes back to his elder brother because I was very friendly with his elder brother when I was the military president. And he is a good politician.
Ademola Adeleke?
Yes, somebody who relates to people, he talks to them, they listen to him, he dances with them, he eats with them. So, he is a good politician.
Many people thought he is a clown?
No, no, no. He is a good politician.